CEO and Co-Founder of global data collection company, Veridata Insights, Jami Pulley has attained over 25 years of experience in the market research industry. Jamie knows the in’s and out’s to who and how to recruit panel participants, what the data means, what questions to ask, and how to engage participants. Listen as she and Chris Wise discuss how important both curiosity and creativity are in the data collection process.

Speaker 1:
Welcome to Ignite, an original podcast from Design Sensory Intelligence. This is a podcast for business pros like you, from sports and entertainment to travel and tourism, financial services to economic development, and more. We uncover relevant, timely information that will help keep you at the fore of consumer behavior understanding. Our host, Chris Wise, the brains behind Ignite, has been deeply committed to research, insights, and innovation for over 30 years. He knows the right questions to ask, and more importantly, what to do with the answers. Get ready for the engaging in depth conversations with industry leaders that will inspire you to take action and connect with your audience on real human terms. This is Ignite, the spark to light your fire.

Chris Wise:
Welcome to Ignite, where we have the opportunity to talk with subject matter experts about important and compelling marketing communications and intelligence issues. Specifically, we delve into incredible tools for audience identification, behaviors, and ways to communicate with them, allowing for total engagement. Today we are pleased to be joined by Jami Pulley, CEO and co-founder of Veridata Insights. Did I say that right?

Jami Pulley:
You did. You did. You nailed it.

Chris Wise:
Okay, thanks. So Jami, welcome. Glad you’re here.

Jami Pulley:
Thank you. Yes, me too. It’s a pleasure to be here. So thank you.

Chris Wise:
Market research and intelligence, much like the business and communications world, has been changing, or rather evolving at a rapid rate, a rate that continues to accelerate at what seems like breakneck speed. Technology advances continue to help us find people, the right people, to study in very specific and audience specific ways. And artificial intelligence is helping us dig deeper and broader. Kind of feels like we’re on a fantastic theme park ride. For me, I just don’t want to stop. Awesome and rewarding fun.

Jami Pulley:
Yep.

Chris Wise:
So, Jami, tell us about yourself, a glimpse of who you are, your background, and what let you team up with Tom Littlejohn to form Veridata.

Jami Pulley:
So first and foremost, I’m a mother of four girls, happily married. So my children, they’re again, all girls. So it’s a bit of a chaotic household with the ages 16, 14, 13, and then 18 months old. So lots of stuff going on there. And then in regards to my career, I started at a small boutique agency. It was a full service marketing research firm out of Dallas, Texas. And I was a project manager there for several years.
Once I left, I joined an organization called E-Rewards, which ended up being the largest global B2B panel in the marketplace. And when I joined, I was the 13th employee. So it was very much a startup environment, really trying to figure out the gaps in the marketplace that we want to field, how to create a scalable business, how to create products, and services, and things like that to really, again, fill the gaps in the marketplace and how to make money. When I started, we were in the red, so cash flow, revenue, all were very, very top priorities for all of us.
When I left E-Rewards, I was … which within research now through a merger and acquisition, we had over 600 global employees, and I was managing the largest region within that organization. And then I had also launched Latin America for the business. And I was the first senior vice president sales female in the company. So, had a lot of opportunity to learn a lot, achieve a lot, and it was just a phenomenal part of my career.
Once I left Research Now, I then joined a company called Critical Mix. A lot of these companies no longer exist because of all the mergers and acquisitions. But joined Critical Mix, and Tom Littlejohn had been at Critical Mix for several years before me. I was hired there to open the Dallas office and build out teams both on the sales and op side. When they were acquired, Tom and I took a step back and we said, “We have our own ideas on how to build a company, how to treat clients, how to treat employees, how to build a panel, how to maintain it, and how we want to provide this very high level client service.” And then that is why Veridata exists today. And I would say, just to add on, that we shared such core beliefs, not only in business, but also personally, so we ended up getting married. So here we are.

Chris Wise:
Well, there you go.

Jami Pulley:
Yeah.

Chris Wise:
That works out sometimes, doesn’t it? Yeah.

Jami Pulley:
Our pillow talk is fun, right, because it’s kids and business.

Chris Wise:
Do you ever set business aside?

Jami Pulley:
You have to. You have to. We’ve had to learn that over the last three and a half years, though, that did not come naturally.

Chris Wise:
So what is the driving force that keeps Veridata on such a meteoric path? It seems like you’ve been doing very well and very quickly. And then along with that, what void are you filling, and what really sets you apart? What truly sets you apart from all the others?

Jami Pulley:
Yeah, I love that question. I think it’s important to know that we’ve had zero outside investment. So everything that we’ve done in this organization has been built from the ground up, and it was self-funded through Tom and myself. And that is everything from the Biz Knowledge panel to the technology that we utilize. It’s called Sample Tap. And that’s what our PMs use to manage all the different projects they have. So I really think the technology, and then the core of it is client service.
So as Tom and I had the opportunity to start with companies that were small and then grew into very large organizations, there was a couple of things that went away with that, flexibility, being nimble, and having the ability to be creative versus just looking at your internal assets and going, “What can we do with this?” Anything outside of that, it’s no bid, or best efforts, or whatever.
So when we created Veridata, again, Biz Knowledge panel will always be at the core of this business. With that being said, we never want to be just a panel company. So as audiences become more niche and harder to get to, and they’re just smaller populated segments that we want to talk to, creative solutions will always be part of a service we provide. And regardless of how big we get, our goal is to be nimble and flexible. And so we don’t want our clients to have to mold how we work in our processes. We really want to get to know our clients and work to become an extension of their team.
And the void that we’re trying to fill is a better company through technology, both on the client service side, on the panel side, on the sample sourcing side, and then making sure it’s high quality with real time validation, and being fun to work with. And then also looking at the gaps that are naturally in the marketplace today. So if you’re thinking about unacculturated Hispanics, Hispanics, African Americans, 18 to 24 year olds, and B2B is a huge part of that and a huge thing we’re focused on. Those are all the other gaps that we’re trying to fill from a sample sourcing perspective.

Chris Wise:
I love it. Well, I know obviously firsthand on the B2B side, and the great project and experience I’ve had, and you finding those critical C-Suite people and letting them spend 30 minutes with me, it’s been wonderful. So-

Jami Pulley:
Good.

Chris Wise:
… thank you for that, and hats off, and we’ll keep doing business together.

Jami Pulley:
All right. I love hearing that, by the way. That’s a huge compliment, so thank you.

Chris Wise:
Sure. So marketers are drowning in data, lots and lots of data. Often it’s an ocean of numbers, and many organizations view specs of data in irrelevant ways. Looks good on paper, but means little or nothing when it really boils down to how it is being applied from a marketing perspective. How do you think marketers can best embrace the data that they have in front of them in a way that rewards and doesn’t overwhelm?

Jami Pulley:
Yeah, no, I think that’s a great question, and I think it’s been a challenge of our industry for 10, 20 years. So this is not new, right?

Chris Wise:
Right.

Jami Pulley:
So there’s a couple of things that really help me, and I will say, too, that I feel like people in the marketing research industry are naturally curious. And I’m the same way, I’m naturally curious. So as I start looking at data, and looking at the different information, and really getting in integrated with it, I go down these different rabbit holes because I’m like, “Oh, that’s a fun tidbit, I didn’t know about that. I want to learn more about that.” So one thing that keeps me focused is, on a piece of paper somewhere near my computer, I will write down the research objective and the goal. And then as I go down these rabbit holes, if I look over and look at my goal and see that what I’m looking at has nothing to do with it or isn’t going to get me there, I quickly climb out of the hole and refocus.
The other really important part, I think, is to have a very clear definition not only on the research objective but on what parts of the data are useful versus nice to know. There’s so much data out there that if you don’t have that clear definition of what part of the data is helping you answer the questions that you need answers to, I think that’s where you end up going all over the board and looking at things that are just not necessary at the time.

Chris Wise:
Yeah, that’s interesting. I’ve always been of the mind to only ask the questions that you really want answers to-

Jami Pulley:
Yes.

Chris Wise:
… and avoid those nice to knows because then you have a terribly long project or a survey tool that, A, you don’t get what you want because people time out, fatigued out, and why? You spent wasted resources on an, “Oh, wouldn’t that be nice to know,” as opposed to what I need to know.

Jami Pulley:
No, and that’s true, and you see that in long term trackers too because people like to add questions over the years, and then at some point … There’s been several conversations when we’re going, “Do you guys really look at all of the data for all the questions that have been in here 10 plus years?” And they’re like, “No.” Well, why are we still asking them? I do think there’s technology today that also help companies with that. So building out knowledge centers internally, or custom dashboards that allow different divisions of businesses to look at the data that’s really important to just their part of the business is also a really effective way to make sure people stay focused and don’t get drowned throughout all the noise with all the other data that might not even be pertinent to what they’re doing in their daily jobs.

Chris Wise:
Do you ever hit a brick wall when it comes to client understanding a legitimate application of marketing intelligence and the best ways to find and study different audiences, especially in your case, those niche and obscure audiences?

Jami Pulley:
I love this question, and I really had to think about it because I don’t think our brick wall is with client understanding. I think the marketplace over the last decade has been very conditioned to doing sample, or at least the sampling portion of the research, very fast and very cheap. And so when you’re looking for those really hard to reach audiences, a lot of times those two factors don’t play a role in getting to them. So it’s really about creating that creative sampling approach, and then making sure we’re doing a good job of describing how we’re going to get to those people.
But a lot of times, that takes time and that takes budget. And I think that’s really the brick wall that we’ve come up across is that companies are so used to going, “Oh, well I pay $15 for an IT decision maker, and now that I’m looking for somebody within a hospital system that uses some type of IT software that might only cover 10% of the market share within the hospital market, and I want that for $15.” And the answer is, we can get to them, but it’s not going to be in the timeline you think it should be. And it’s not going to be in the budget you want it to be.

Chris Wise:
Right. So on the project we just wrapped up, I think we came with adequate budget to get to the people we wanted to. Is that a fair statement?

Jami Pulley:
Absolutely. And you had a very open mind on how to get to the C level executives. And that’s the first step, is having an open mind and understanding. These people don’t always exist on the online panel, so how do we get to them?

Chris Wise:
Right, right. My next question is, it really deals with diversity, equity, inclusion, and do you think research practitioners are doing an intentional and good job of representing that 26% of the US population who are disabled adults specifically, and knowing within that 26%, only 8% have visible disabilities, the rest are invisible disabilities. So how can inclusivity, in the truest sense of the word, be really embraced by the collection tools that we use, and that we really pay attention that so we can do some segmentation along those lines? Is that possible? This is especially from a data collection standpoint, it’s important that we don’t miss them, that they’re viable consumers, they operate businesses, they are us. And so-

Jami Pulley:
Yes.

Chris Wise:
What do you think?

Jami Pulley:
Chris, I have to tell you this was a really hard question for me because there’s a couple of thoughts to it. One, if I were to take a step back and look at all the thousands of projects that we do on an annual basis, both for consumer and business professionals, there is not one example that I could come up with where we’re even asking about disabilities. So, one, I think a lot of the people that suffer disabilities, depending on how we’re defining that … Is it ADHD, autism? But again, it all depends on how we’re defining that. So I think a lot of times, these people are participating in our research naturally, but because we’re not tracking that through any particular questions within the survey design, I don’t think we know if they’re represented or not, and not at the 26% level, which they should be. So I think if we’re more interested in tracking that, the first thing that has to change is the questionnaire development in the design.
The other part, too, is I think it goes back to the research objective and the goal of the project. You want to be really careful on understanding the audiences that you want to speak to, to reach those objectives. And I think sometimes that’s really important to make sure that we’re inclusive of those audiences. And other times, it may not be. I don’t always know the answer to that, but I can tell you as a whole we’re not doing a very good job of asking the right questions to even track what you’re talking about.

Chris Wise:
Even in the kind of questions that … So, if we talk about an online survey, sometimes the question type that we use is not friendly to assistive devices. So a screen reader can’t pick up certain types of questions, so that excludes a response to that question. I’ve been doing research for lots of decades, and it hasn’t always been at the fore of any conversation. Here and there, but I think it’s just something that overall we just need to be more aware of. And for me, when I develop a survey, also be more aware of it and tested against, before we go live, test it with people that use assistive devices in their use of the internet. Okay, I appreciate that. So now where the big question is. As you look beyond to … I say 2023, but I’m really looking beyond that, where do you see market research intelligence going? What are your challenges, fears, and joys?

Jami Pulley:
Oh my gosh. I will tell you one of the things that can both be a challenge and a joy is technology. So the foundation of Veridata, for example, is technology. So utilizing technology so our project managers can do a better job, so it’s not about pushing the button. The systems we’re building do that for you. And that allows them more time to be able to pivot when we need to pivot, or have more proactive communication or problem solving skills for the really hard projects. And a lot of times, because we don’t make widgets, and everything is custom, there’s a lot of times you’re walking into a project, thinking the incidence is 10%, and then you’re like, “Well, here we are at a 1% incidence.” So we want our operations team really developing the solutions for those types of issues versus pushing the button to get the gen pop sample out. So very excited about technology.
Also, if you were to look at Sample Tap, which is, again, our project management system that we build internally, where it was six months after we started the business and where it is today, it looks and feels completely different. By the time we’re done with the user interface of that technology, we want it to be so simplistic that if anybody in the marketplace wanted to go in and drop sample or do something within that platform, they would be able to do that. It should be that easy to manage. But that gives us internal capabilities and flexibilities, too, because then that means you’re also reducing training time for new operation team members. So there’s some benefits to not only having it easy to work for the marketplace, but also internally.
So I think technology, I also think the industry as a whole, who in my opinion historically has been a little bit late to adapt to new technologies and new ways to do things, are starting to adapt a little bit faster. And with AI, some automation, and I think all of those things are glorious. I do think that the fear is that you really have to understand the biases. Because I don’t care what research methodology you’re doing, or how you’re recruiting, or if it’s qual or quant, there are certain biases in all of the research that we do. So, one, making sure that we want it to be the smallest amount possible, but then also understanding what that is. And the fear is people adapting to the way consumers and business professionals want to participate in research. So a really good example, we work with a lot of different clients, a ton of different sizes, different specialty groups, all that fun stuff. You would be shocked at the number of companies that still do not have mobile friendly surveys.

Chris Wise:
Yeah, I would be.

Jami Pulley:
And if you look at the people that come through the Biz Knowledge panel and other online panels, typically about 30 to 50% of the people are trying to participate in that survey through a mobile device. If we’re doing social media recruitment, which is a phenomenal resource for the hard to reach audiences that are typically less represented on online panels, so again, unacculturated Hispanics, Hispanics, African Americans, young age groups, old age groups, all those fun stuff, 80% of that traffic is coming through mobile devices.And so I think as an industry we really have to … And I know we’ve gotten better, moving from phone to online, but I think we really have to get better and more understanding, and going, “If we’re asking these people to give us information and data and share with us, we want to allow them to do it in a way that they’re comfortable and in their natural state. And if it’s mobile devices, then our questionnaire should reflect that.” So I think that’s a challenge going into 2023 just because I haven’t seen a ton of change in that area across the board.

Chris Wise:
Wow, interesting. Talking about slow to adapt and adopt, when COVID hit and there was this big outcry that we need to be able to shift to online focus groups, I’m going, “I’ve been doing online focus groups for the last 15 years.” I didn’t understand why all of a sudden we need to think about that. I was like, “What?” I closed a physical facility because I’d shifted to all online. So, that kind of surprised me then when that was such a buzz at the beginning of the pandemic. And then when you talked about AI, if you remember, that’s how I found you, because of our friends at Remesh that have such wonderful technology that I salivate over because of what it can do for us. And that continues to evolve as a great product, as well. So yeah, I’m glad to hear you talk about technology. We have to be there. We have to be there.

Jami Pulley:
I agree. And it’s only going to get better. So, that’s exciting.

Chris Wise:
Oh, absolutely. The growth will be … What’s the word I’m looking for? More rapid than … Just like everything else in the world, it’s just happening exponentially. That’s the word I was thinking, exponentially faster, and faster, and faster. Nailed it. Yeah, finally. So, anything else you’d like to share?

Jami Pulley:
No. I would say that as, again, and I’m big on this, as consumers and business professionals find different ways that they’re comfortable giving us data and communicating with the research industry, I think we have to really be open-minded and flexible in how we allow them to give us that data, and not be stuck in one way because we’ve always done it that way.

Chris Wise:
That leads me … I do have just an off the cuff question. It really revolves around privacy and what that means for us, and what we need to be aware of, and how do we operate in a world that is becoming a little tighter in our availability to reach the people and gather the information that we really want to use legitimately. But it might get harder and harder. Talk to me about privacy issues.

Jami Pulley:
No, it has gotten harder and harder. And that’s the other area that I’ve seen a lot of companies not really adapt quickly to. Because with all the different privacy policies, there’s a lot of different ways that we have to do things. So for Veridata, everything is permission based. So if you want to ask, if you want to send consumers or business professionals through an online survey, and then maybe use some of their quotes or videos that they’re doing for us for PR purposes, you have to get the PR media release. In addition to that, you want to make sure you’re very open. How is this information going to be used? Where is this going to be posted? Because everything needs to be very transparent before somebody agrees to do things in that area.
And then also on the B2B side, when you’re asking companies a lot about what are your budgets, what do you use internally, what are your challenges, and then you ask them, “Hey, give us your name and your title,” business professionals do not want to do that. They want to remain anonymous, yet they want to share the information. So I think being respectful and understanding why that might be important to a business professional. And then fraud, I think as fraud has gotten bigger in the marketplace, both on the B2B side and on the consumer side, for us, recruitment, especially the hard tore audiences, one of the challenges that we have is ensuring that we’re giving people the confidence that we are a real company. We’re a real company with a real need to gain their thoughts and opinions about a product, or service, or whatever it is we’re looking for.
And so when companies at the end of those projects like to add the collection of PII or the collection of a PR release, all of a sudden, the people that we had been talking to have a lot of doubt on why we’re really doing the research. I think we have to be very respectful of that. So, there is a need for PII collection transparency, and gaining permission, and making sure they understand how that information is going to be used, how long, and who will have access to it, are all very important things to provide.

Chris Wise:
It’s interesting. Even on the one on ones that I just did, I didn’t have any information about the people I was talking to, and I appreciated that. And some of them, I just asked them to tell me about themselves, and they’d give me everything. And some would say, “I don’t have to give you my name. Nope, not important.” No, you don’t have to give me your name. But then they told me everything they could about the business that I thought, “Whoa,” but I can’t track it back to them, so it’s okay.

Jami Pulley:
Yeah. And my guess is if they would’ve given you their name, they probably wouldn’t given you all the other information about the business.

Chris Wise:
Well, some gave me both. So it was all right. Jami, I can’t thank you enough. I do appreciate you spending the time with us, and sharing your thoughts and opinions, and letting us know more about Veridata, and hopefully other people will find you, as well. And I look forward to many other projects together. It’ll be great. So thank you.

Jami Pulley:
Yep. Well, thank you. We appreciate the opportunity to always add value to finding the right people to participate in research, and it makes it more fun when you enjoy the people you work with, so we really appreciate it. So thank you.

Chris Wise:
That is the truth. And thank all of you for listening to Ignite, a podcast from Design Sensory Intelligence. If you want to know more about the various ways we gain audience intelligence and turn that intelligence into solid marketing solutions, just drop me a note, Chris Wise. Until next time, stay wise.

Speaker 1:
Thank you for listening to Ignite, a podcast from Design Sensory Intelligence. If you want to learn more, head to DesignSensoryIntel.com. Until next time, continue your pursuit of quenching your unending thirst for intelligent understanding of human consuming behavior.

CEO and Co-Founder of global data collection company, Veridata Insights, Jami Pulley has attained over 25 years of experience in the market research industry.

Beginning at Common Knowledge, Jami would advance in her career to become the first female Senior Vice President of e-Rewards (aka Research Now, aka Dynata), managing their largest revenue producing region and launching the LATAM region.

Jami’s passion for providing unsurpassed value to clients led to the inception of Veridata Insights, a global data collection and panel company. At Veridata she embraces the latest technology, complimented with a little creativity, to earn the right to be a valued partner to her clients.  Utilizing Veridata’s internal panel, BizKnowledge, in addition to phone and social media recruitment to support qualitative and quantitative research, Jami’s enjoyment lies in delighting clients with outstanding customer service.

By applying her passion for team building, Jami leads Veridata to develop creative solutions to complex challenges, proudly delivering on the promise of fulfilling projects “on time, on budget, and stress free”.

Jami’s beloved work keeps her busy but attending her four children’s endless sporting activities often occupies the remainder of her schedule. Jami enjoys family time with her husband and children, especially family dinners. Jami has a passion for traveling, which she aspires to enjoy more of as she continues to take Veridata to escalating heights.