On this episode of Fired Up, Dennis Carroll, COO of FC Cincinnati, talks about how the people of Cincinnati have embraced the team and about the care being taken to welcome the fans, especially as construction progresses on their new downtown stadium.

Chris McAdoo:

Welcome to Fired Up!, an original podcast from Ignite Fan Insights, powered by NASCAR, the National Sports Forum, and the Association of Luxury Suite Directors. This is a podcast for sports business pros like you. We go behind the gates and beyond the numbers that keep sports fans coming back for more. Our host, Chris Wise, is the brains behind Ignite Fan Insights. With a commitment to research and innovation for over 30 years, he knows the right questions to ask, and more importantly, what to do with the answers. Get ready for engaging, in-depth conversations with sports industry leaders that will inspire you to take action and connect with your fans. I’m Chris McAdoo, and this is Fired Up!

Chris McAdoo:

This episode of Fired Up!, we talked with Dennis Carroll, the chief operating officer of FC Cincinnati.

Chris Wise:

Wow. We’re going to hear so much, but what really stood out in this interview was the way they focus on what it takes to bring friends together for 90 minutes. They care.

Chris McAdoo:

Couldn’t agree more. So, let’s hear from the man himself, Dennis Carroll of FC Cincinnati. Hello, hello.

Dennis Carroll:

Hey, Chris.

Chris McAdoo:

Dennis, welcome to the podcast.

Dennis Carroll:

Hey, guys. Thanks for having me.

Chris McAdoo:

Absolutely. Chris, I’m going to hand it over to you.

Chris Wise:

Okay. Dennis, Chris teed up a little bit about your background, but tell us a little bit more, just about you, your career, and what it looks like now, and where you’re going with it.

Dennis Carroll:

Sure. Yeah. So, as Chris mentioned, my previous stints both have the word Philadelphia in it. It’s the Philadelphia Union and then Philadelphia Eagles, so I’m a Philly guy through and through, born and raised, and sports has been part of my life as long as I can remember, and I’ll probably give away my age here, but I went to Saint Joseph’s University in the heart of Philadelphia, and my senior year of school is when they had the undefeated basketball season, Jameer Nelson, Delonte West and whatnot.

Chris Wise:

Wow.

Dennis Carroll:

So, having that experience, and as I was kind of setting in… I was an undergrad in accounting. Really wanted me to look further into kind of how I could marry the fandom of sports and just the passion it creates with my professional life, and obviously, it’s worked out. I was able to kind of do that. So, I initially started at PricewaterhouseCoopers, which is a Big Four accounting firm. A normal route with an accounting major, you get your CPA, you’re kind of in the insurance or tax route, and then I was, I call it, I was given the offer I couldn’t refuse, it was kind of like The Godfather, from the Philadelphia Eagles. I joined them as financial analyst, and that’s kind of like the rest is history, where I was in the typical quote-unquote CPA partner track, if you will, and then the sports calling came and hooked me.

Chris Wise:

Cool. Great. So, with that, what makes you tick? What really lights your professional fire?

Dennis Carroll:

Good question. I mean, I think everyone’s fueled a little bit differently. I think it’s, obviously, the passion to succeed is one, and that’s on and off the field. So, for me, if I’m chief operating officer of FC Cincinnati, clearly I want the boys on the team to win on the field, but then, obviously, what fuels me right now is we have some exciting projects on hand, whether it’s just kind of building and scaling our front office and our business, or completing our 30,000-square-foot training facility that we just built out in the suburbs here in Cincinnati, and ultimately, in 2021, we’re going to open the doors to a brand new state-of-the-art soccer-specific stadium in Downtown Cincinnati. So, it’s the projects. It’s the no day is ever the same in this world, is what really excites and fuels me every day.

Chris Wise:

Yeah. So, lots of stuff on the table, and you’re driving it. That’s awesome. So, FC Cincinnati in the top three of attendance in the league, and really, a new team in the league. So, it appears that Cincinnati’s been a great supporter of soccer, even before MLS came to town. What drives that passion, and why so supportive? What accounts for that, and how do you tap into that attribute?

Dennis Carroll:

Yeah. I mean, truly, there’s some sort of secret sauce here, and I truly didn’t believe it or maybe fully comprehend it until I, again, got into town and witnessed my first game, which was the home opener of our inaugural MLS season last year against Portland. So, currently we play at Nippert Stadium, which is on the campus of the University of Cincinnati, so we have great partners with the university. It’s a unique, old, great venue that holds 32,000 fans, and again, my first experience was, again, amongst 32 friends at the home opener, and I remember it kind of gave me goosebumps. I remember kind of calling home back to Philly again to my buddies or my dad and just saying, “Man, this felt like a big…” whether it was a Philadelphia Eagles playoff game or just a big game in Philadelphia, which they have great fans and great sports history as well, and so I was just blown away from day one.

Dennis Carroll:

Obviously, the results on the field didn’t go as planned last year, but we still had just great fan support and commitment. I think they’re in it for the long haul because they see the investment and the strides we’re making in this community. So, I think the secret sauce, what we’ve seen from the data has shown that we outpace, I guess, other markets, traditional markets and other markets in the MLS in terms of our civic-based sports fans, meaning you have some team maybe track highly on sports enthusiasts or people that are fans of soccer. We track the highest in terms of our fan demographics of just civics, so people that are just pride and passion about the city of Cincinnati, regardless of the sport of soccer, regardless of SDC or the Bengals or the Reds. They are just supporting the city of Cincinnati. So, our culture is to make Cincinnati Champion City, so our fans are just… They’re supporting us and that vision. We just happen to play soccer. So, it’s a pretty unique marriage, and one that we’re getting behind in a big way.

Chris Wise:

So, they do hold that same passion for the other Major League teams, or it’s unique to MLS?

Dennis Carroll:

They do, but I would say it’s unique to MLS and just this story in terms of we were, not too long ago, just a USL team. It’s a Minor League soccer team, and even in those days, a Minor League with aspirations of reaching MLS, but in no way guaranteed. We still had the tremendous following that we do today, and ground swell was kind of there in a sort of organic way, and it just kind of built, and the fan base doubled and tripled and quadrupled in size to such a way where the MLS couldn’t really look away. They had to award Cincinnati the expansion team. So, I’d say yes, the city itself supports all their teams, both college and professional teams, but I think the kind of David versus Goliath story of the Minor League seeding and getting into the Major Leagues in this organic way has really just captured the hearts and minds of the city.

Chris Wise:

Excellent. You nodded to the new stadium that’s being built. Tell us a little just updated progress of that, and what is it that’s special about that facility relative to other stadiums in other markets, and then coupled with that, before I forget, what is the capacity there in relation to your current situation?

Dennis Carroll:

Yeah. So, it’s going to be approximately 26,000 seats, and our current situation at Nippert on the campus of the University of Cincinnati is about 32,000, to be exact, probably 32,500 seats. So, it’s a little bit smaller, but again… So, what we’re excited about, it’s a soccer-specific venue, and again, MLS has come a long way from MLS 1.0 to what people refer to as 2.0, and the mid 2000s of a bunch of the teams being built, and now this latest launch of 3.0, of Minnesota, LAFC, and now us and some other markets building the latest group of stadiums. So, what’s unique to our stadium is, one, it’s going to be Downtown, so it’s in the heart of Downtown Cincinnati where, again, people can walk from work right to the stadium. They can stop at restaurants, bars along the way, or find their friends for tailgates, but they’re right here in the heart of Cincinnati.

Dennis Carroll:

Two, it’s going to be kind of fully enclosed, meaning every seat will be covered by a roof. So, from a fan experience perspective, one, that’s just great. It either provides shade or shelter for fans, but then two, it’s going to keep it loud and make it loud, make it a hard place to play for visiting teams, and then again, the community support that I mentioned previously, we’ve gone, I’d say, on the other end of the spectrum in terms of our premium seating options, we have 54 suites in our new stadium, with over 4,000 club seats. So, by far, the 54 suites will be the highest in the all of MLS, and so our feeling is, one, in MLS it’s unique where local revenues, what you can generate on your own, is what is going to allow you to kind of compete on the playing field. It’s going to allow you to have money from a salary perspective to go buy players.

Dennis Carroll:

Two, we think we have the corporate community and just the buy-in here from the city that will support that thought process. Then the last piece, I think what’s most exciting for me, and I think for really just the general public here, is we’re going to have this kind of vertical LED fin system on the outside of the stadium. It’s going to be 360 degrees around the stadium, unique, to my understanding, all stadiums across the world, let alone North America, where we’ll have the ability to just light it up, words, images, FC Cincinnati-specific branding. It’s going to look spectacular. So, this technology, I think it’s going to create or turn an amazing stadium and turn it into one of the most renowned soccer stadiums in North America.

Chris Wise:

With the capacity reduction from where you are now, are you going to end up like Minnesota, and so you’ll operate at 102%, 103% of capacity every game?

Dennis Carroll:

I mean, that’s the hope. If we’re all doing our jobs correctly, that is the hope. We want a sold-out venue that creates demand, and it’s going to lead to just an amazing environment, which hopefully leads to wins on the field, and creates that circle that every team tries to create. So, yeah, that’s the goal. I think we’ll have a good mix of season tickets, single tickets and group tickets, plus our array of premium options. I think we have a seat option for pretty much every fan we have.

Chris McAdoo:

Well, yeah. Dennis, I’m going to speak specifically to soccer and their fan engagement, and I think it’s really cool that you are coming to where they are, because soccer fans, you go to any international stadium, obviously, but any MLS, and you see 90 minutes of engagement, and I think allowing for these different kind of setups, from the suites to the seats, that allow people to engage how they want to, but really, to allow that community to come together is just a really cool thing, and it’s really cool to be on the forefront of that. So, that being said, from the vantage point of a soccer team versus another, what do you see as the future of an engagement on the ground? Are you guys going to have the clubs? Are you going to have the activities there at the events? What’s going to keep people coming in and keep people coming back?

Dennis Carroll:

Yeah. So, I think, one, being in the MLS and being in the sport of soccer, I think we benefit from the game, like you mentioned, being 90 minutes. As a sports fan, and really, in today’s demographic, we are constantly under the demand of different forms of entertainment, and maybe I didn’t realize it until I started having a kid of my own and raising a family just how precious every minute and every hour of the day is in terms of the number of items and things you want to do and accomplish and juggle and everything else. So, the fact that we can offer, and quite frankly, advertise a 90-minute game where you come and bring your family and kids, and you’re in your seat cheering and having a great time, but then 90 minutes later, you’re kind of on your way home, that’s pretty spectacular in terms of just how people try to manage work-life balance these days. So, I think that’s actually a true benefit that we have in the world of soccer.

Dennis Carroll:

I’m a sports fan of all sports, but you can go to a baseball game, and one game may be two hours, but the next game may be three-and-a-half hours. So, I think that is a true advantage of soccer, and then right on top of that, when we talk about our state and environment, it is we’re going to try to create a 365-type destination. Because we’re downtown, we’re blessed with great locations of just other businesses where people work, live and play, and obviously, beyond that, I think we can look into possibly some mixed-use development and get some retail and residential locations that’ll surround our building and make it a destination. I think our clubs themselves allow for unique offerings, where we can have weddings, corporate outings. We have one bar in particular on the east side of the stadium, which from current images I’ve seen, looks like it could be almost one of the coolest bars and clubs in the city, and it just happens to be in a soccer stadium. So, we’re pretty pumped about it, and we think we have really unique opportunities and offerings to give our fans.

Chris Wise:

Has there been additional development around the stadium to feed that fan, not necessarily just food, but other entertainment options?

Dennis Carroll:

Yeah. I mean, we’re in the process now. We’re still about 14, 15 months away from actually kicking the first game off in the stadium, and so with that, we’re in constant conversations in terms of what the [inaudible 00:16:06] development will look like, both within our footprint and then the expanding footprint as you look around the entire stadium site. When we think about fan experience here, we think about what it means when a fan actually starts putting on their jerseys and their FCC gear at their house, get in their car, Uber or bike or walk, and that experience starts the minute they leave that door until they get to our front door at our stadium. So, we’re constantly thinking about what the whole environment looks like and that ecosystem looks like.

Chris Wise:

I want to jump to your… I just thought of this. Your ownership is very invested in the community, and just are deep in the community. Has that been beneficial? What role do they play day-to-day? How do they support what you do, and yeah, just talk a little bit about ownership.

Dennis Carroll:

Sure. I think, as you guys know, it’s really what drives sports and sports organizations. It always comes down to ownership, ownership, ownership. So, truly, the best sports teams, or really, the ones that are looked at most highly, quite typically have the best ownership groups in terms of being invested back in their community. So, one of the key drivers and what made me actually leave Philadelphia and come to Cincinnati, a city I’ve never been to before, was that ownership group and was that commitment. So, our ownership group is almost primarily local, and it’s obviously led by Carl Lindner III.

Dennis Carroll:

I mean, when you think about Cincinnati, he’s truly a representative of the city, and one of our core values is community, from a team perspective. So, every decision we make, everything we do, we kind of lean back on those core values, and it drives the way we think about our business. So, he’s been heavily involved to the extent that we think about the stadium that we’re building. It’s going to be world-class, and it’s privately-funded, and that’s a commitment from our ownership group, commitment to the city, and commitment to MLS, and they truly look at this as a legacy project that they want to leave to the city of Cincinnati.

Chris Wise:

I want to switch over to the thing of generational impact. Lots of sports are trying to deal with the changing demographics, the way younger generations coming into sports interact or engage with sports, as well as couple that with the ethnic makeup of our population is changing. How will you deal with those? What’s your approach from a marketing and operational perspective to deal with those issues?

Dennis Carroll:

Well, I think the way we look at it is not one message. Our marketing tactic maybe works for all. So, we try to really segment our fans and our database in terms of what makes certain fans and tick, and why, and engage with us. So, again, we rely on that civic fan base that I mentioned, but there’s also people that just like soccer. There’s people that just like sports and the competition. There’s the communal aspect of fans just want to come together once every other week with 26,000 other friends for 90 minutes and cheer on their team, regardless of religion and politics. So, that’s what makes sports great, and that’s what makes soccer great. So, we’re constantly looking at our fan demographics. Specifically, this year we’ve kind of leaned in on the eMLS space because we obviously have a large percentage of our fan base that are into FIFA, the video game, and just how we can kind of engage with those fans and resonate differently with those fans versus maybe in the older demographic or a different demographic.

Chris Wise:

Right, and just the… When we looked at the profile of your fans, they are diverse, and I just remember spending time with you and looking at those profiles. It was actually very encouraging to see the kind of diverse population that they have coming to the games.

Chris McAdoo:

Well, especially, again, for soccer, being that international sports, Dennis, I love how you said 26,000 friends. Right?

Dennis Carroll:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chris McAdoo:

So, you want to have not just an activity to go to, but an activity that brings people together to root for a team, to root for a sport, to root for a community, and that is a very particular thing to soccer and to fandom that I think is just super powerful. That being said, what do you think coming up is one of the… You mentioned eSports and FIFA, and I think it feeds into this next question, is what do you kind of see as the biggest threat to live sports attendance? What have you seen in your career that has either brought people to the seats or kept them at the house?

Dennis Carroll:

Yeah. So, it’s ever-evolving, and I think, again, to my last point about all fans are a little bit different, and what makes them tick is a little bit different, and some fans enjoy… Depending on the sport, it could be that they enjoy the tailgate, that pregame, and then the game itself happens to be just another aspect, but the tailgate supersedes the game, and it’s just the fact that they’re with friends and family and all together on the tradition of being there weekly or biweekly, or whatever it may be. So, I think there’s… I do harken back to the fact that soccer is 90 minutes, I really do, and maybe it’s because I’m in the stage of my life where I have the family now, and I’m realizing just the time, and I think the threat to sports, and just the time commitment it takes to be at some of these games, the minute you leave your house versus when you come home, it’s pretty significant.

Dennis Carroll:

Youth sports and the time commitment those sports want from children is only increasing. Work demands professionally for parents, those are only increasing. So, it’s going to get harder and harder to gain those eyeballs on the traction week in and week out for fans. So, I think it’s in our best interest to engage them for the 90 minutes or so that we have them and create that family and communal atmosphere where it ends up being a DNA, a fabric of their life, that they frankly can’t miss a game because they want to see Bob, who’s sitting next to them, and get an update on Bob and his family, and cheer on the team, because again, that’s just what they do on a week-to-week basis.

Chris Wise:

Dennis, we’re going to wrap up here. You’ve been awesome, and I’m really excited for this season coming up, and I hope from a win-loss record it’s improved over last year. But just to hear you talk-

Dennis Carroll:

As do I.

Chris Wise:

As you do. But to hear the excitement in your voice, and I know when I was in the office, the excitement that kind of came out from everyone, as well as the professionalism, and it appeared to be the love of the sport, it’s awesome, and so we’re going to be there for a couple games, and just spend some time, and then come back next year when you’re in the new stadium, and again, thanks so much. You’ve been awesome, and I hope we talk soon. Chris, I’m going to let you wrap.

Chris McAdoo:

Yeah, Dennis. Before we let you go, where can folks go to learn more about FC Cincinnati, the club, and to learn more about the stadium as it comes along?

Dennis Carroll:

Yeah, I think the best place is fccincinnati.com. From there, you’ll see all the up-to-date news stories about the team, and as well as the stadium, and we have a live construction cam that you can kind of click in and keep pace. So, the stadium itself is now going vertical, which always makes it more exciting, so steel is coming out of the ground, really beginning to take shape. Yeah. So, fccincinnati.com.

Chris McAdoo:

Awesome. Dennis Carroll, thank you so much for joining us today, and this has been Fired Up!

Chris McAdoo:

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