On this episode of Fired Up, Bob, Dave and Don—three sports super fans—share their love of sports, when and how that love began, how the past year has changed their outlook on attending live sports, how they feel front-office staff responded to the disruption and their hope for the future. All three were introduced to sports at a young age by their fathers, a fact that characterizes super fans.

We were introduced to Bob by the Indianapolis Indians. He is a fan of multiple sports including the Indianapolis Indians, Indy racing, the LA Dodgers and the UCLA Bruins.

Don came to us by way of NASCAR and Bristol Motor Speedway. He is a fan of NASCAR and collegiate athletics (he is a professor at a mid-major university).

Thanks to the Minnesota Vikings, we met Dave. A huge Vikings and Twins fan also enjoys golf.

Hear about their fan journey and how their sports life has been changed over the past year. But rest assured, nothing has changed their love of sports and their emotional need for live sports. Emotions that just can’t be wiped away.

Chris (00:00):

Welcome to Fired Up. We’re talking with real honest-to-goodness sports fans and not a bunch of executives. We’re talking to people that really make it worth our while: The fans. And so, I’m glad to welcome Don, Dave and Bob to our podcast. They represent different teams or sports, but I know they’re all passionate about more than probably one sport. So, I’m going to ask each of them to introduce themselves. And you guys just tell us about yourselves, favorite sports, and when you were first introduced to sports in general. And just kind of talk about that journey and what it’s been like up until today. So, Dave, if you’d start I’d appreciate it.

Dave Wintle (00:36):

Sure. My name is Dave Wintle. I was born and raised in Minneapolis. I’m a Viking season ticket holder. Other sports… I enjoy playing golf, watching college basketball, any sort of baseball, and NFL football. Gosh, you know, I gotta start with my father who introduced me to Vikings football. He was new to Minneapolis in 1969. That year the Vikings actually won something called the NFL Championship. The Vikings aren’t known for championships, but I do need to say they won the NFL Championship with Joe Cap and Bud Grant in a 40 for 60 battle cry. Unfortunately we lost to Hank Stram, Kansas City Chiefs in the last game before the NFL, AFL merger. So it wasn’t exactly called the Super Bowl until maybe retroactively. But because of all that, my father was so passionate, got Viking season ticket holders in 1970. They—those tickets—have been in the family ever since. I was born in 1977. For my eighth birthday in 1985, my dad took me to my very first Viking game. The year before the Vikings had gone three and 13. They pulled Bud Grant out of retirement for one year. In that season opener, we scored three, fourth quarter touchdowns to beat the defending Super Bowl champions San Francisco 49ers led by Joe Montana and coached by Bill Walsh. And let’s just say I was hooked with Vikings football ever since. I guess more recently, just all the memories and just the moments of the Vikings football with their defense of the ’80s and their offensive players sense. Randy Moss, Adrian Peterson even the guy named Brett Favre played for us for a year. We had the Minneapolis miracle in a playoff game more recently. But, essentially just having shared all those great moments with friends and family has just kinda reinforced just being a Viking football fan. My father has since passed away, but I’m 43 years old and considered to have been a Viking season ticket holder for 50 years.

Chris (02:29):

Wow.

Dave Wintle (02:30):

Just rather, rather unique. But, ironically, I was never alive for the four Super Bowl losses. So I have that going for me.

Chris (02:36):

(laughs). You didn’t talk about any other pro teams in Minneapolis.

Dave Wintle (02:40):

You know, I certainly follow the Minnesota Twins. You know, we also have the Minnesota Wild and the Timberwolves, but I guess, definitely passionate for Vikings Football and Minnesota Twins Baseball.

Chris (02:51):

Excellent. Bob, how about you?

Bob (02:52):

Okay, thanks, Chris. I got to see things as a fan from a, kind of a couple unusual seats. My dad was on a big 10 of basketball official growing up. And so, as a little kid he would often drive and take some of us along, I was the eighth of nine kids. So we’d get thrown in the car and from Southern Indiana, drive to places like Wisconsin and Minneapolis State. We’d go up and see Minnesota team play Michigan over in Ohio so… And anything about that, is you see it from a front row seat. I mean, if you come and you’re with the official, you know you get to see basketball from a very cool seat. And so way, way back when, there was a national, big national game put together at Chicago Stadium and it was University of Illinois versus UCLA and their new star center out Lewis Alcindor. And so, my dad got to be selected to work that game and took several of us kids along, got to sit right up front, got to seat really close to John Wooden who came over and talked to us. And so, I then had a new team to follow and be a fan for. And then that’s where I ended up going to school after all those years later. So, another thing that factored in when I was a kid, my oldest brother was a sportscaster. Pretty well-tuned in sportscaster and sportswriter. And so, he was covering events all throughout the Midwest. And with that comes press passes. And so, same kind of deal. I was born the year he graduated from high school, so there’s a huge age gap. And so, he would take me along and, and you know, press passes are a great way to see a game and so I got to see quite a few cool things in most sports growing up as a kid. And so then, I ended up you know, going to all kinds of sporting events growing up and then ended up at UCLA as I mentioned, where I could now watch UCLA games as a student there and also our family had some relatives that had front row Dodger tickets. And so, I went to a lot of Dodger games at that time, that was also during the Fernando, Valenzuela Fernando mania era, just a lot of baseball and then just a lot of stuff since then. I mean, I love going to pro-golf, and, a, a lot of stuff along the way. And today I’m a season ticket holder for the Indianapolis Indians who’s the Triple-A affiliate for the Pittsburgh Pirates, and very, very much enjoy going to Triple-A baseball.

Chris (05:03):

Did you play sports as you, as a youth?

Bob (05:05):

Yeah, just, you know a little. I think most guys… One thing I didn’t get from my dad or my oldest brother that I mentioned was their height. Both of them were centers in school and one, my brother played in college and my dad played… Had a chance to go and play in college. The both of them were centers as I mentioned, but I’m about 5’10. So I didn’t get that part. So, my participation kinda went through early part of high school and then I, you know, I got involved in televising events and doing sporting from the other side of the camera.

Chris (05:35):

Okay. Dave, did you play sports as a youth?

Dave Wintle (05:37):

Yeah, certainly played baseball, football. So, that was easy then to become a fan, right? Never really picked up golf until maybe the last uh, 15 or 20 years. It’s a challenging sport, but it’s fun, ’cause you know, I can still do it today, and if there’s a bad shot, you just make sure the next shots a good shot.

Chris (05:56):

Yeah. Heck, no one to play with me, I have to hit the ball too many times. So it’s a lonely game for me.

Dave Wintle (06:01):

There’s a, there’s a reason that golf is a four letter word.

Chris (06:03):

Yeah (laughs). Don, how about you? Tell us about yourself.

Don (06:08):

Grew up in Hickory, North Carolina. So, I spent a lot of Saturday nights at Hickory Speedway, where I watched guys like Harry Gant and Tommy Houston, Morgan Shepard, and uh, they were all there every Saturday night. So I grew up with a huge appreciation of that. And I’m gonna go back a little further than Dave did. When I was seven years old, my first race was at Charlotte Motor Speedway in 1964. The World-600. We camped inside turn two, and something happened after about seven laps, and some of you are probably putting all this together. That was the wreck that Fireball Roberts was killed in. And that was my first exposure in person to racing. I was talking with Ned Jarrett several years later, and Mitch and that, and he seemed really appreciative. I’m really glad he stayed with the sport, a lot of people did not. And that’s what happened with the Earnhardt accident 30-some years later. Growing up I loved all sports, ’cause I like games, I liked winning (laughs). I played a little league baseball had a really good glove, lousy arms, I was a great second baseman, then got to high school. I wrestled because I was too small to do much of anything else, and that was back many years of many pounds ago. My favorite sports now, in addition to NASCAR, of course, I really prefer college sports over pro sports. I used to follow a Major League Baseball and the NFL quite a bit. Never much got into NBA, but I especially like college basketball and college football. And I’m a professor at a mid-major university and I’m a little bit involved with the athletic program there. So, I follow them closely. And I you know, know some of those folks and, and happy to be able to you know, keep that goal in my… Over the years now.

Chris (07:51):

Fabulous. Let’s stay with you Don, then. How is your view of professional sports or any sports specifically been influenced anyway over the course of the last 12 months?

Don (08:00):

The COVID year is something I think a lot of us would just kind of like to forget. I probably have changed a little bit. One of the things that’s changed, but… I found that I could do without some things. I missed the first Bristol Race last spring for, gosh, in the last 25 years, I probably don’t need all the fingers on one hand to count how many I’ve missed. And I didn’t like it, but it was kind of okay. And then things started coming back, and NASCAR really led the way of that. We had, I think the country’s first large gathering, you know, so—you know (unless that’s a relative term, you know) when they hosted the All-Star race last year—and I think they did a really great job. I came away really impressed, and there were no COVID outbreaks that could be traced back to that. Of course, we had a Bristol race of what was allowed to be our capacity last week. And again, did a really good job. And I can see how they’re leading the way. I missed college basketball this year. We’re currently in our college football season right now. I missed it, but it was, it did not seem to be the priority it probably once was for me.

Chris (09:03):

Dave, how about you?

Dave Wintle (09:03):

Yeah, in terms of the last 12 months or, you know, since the… You know, certainly March of 2020 was a watershed moment as it relates to kinda this new COVID world. We’re all adjusting, adapting. You know, the low point certainly was say, a year ago or 13 months ago when the NCAA Basketball Tournament was taken away from us and the NBA season halted and the NHL wasn’t being played. And there were no soccer games, soccer matches, and things of that nature. But, we’re resilient as a people and these leagues, you know, figured out, you know, baseball started, you know, in what, June or July. Major League Baseball started in June or July, and they had a World Series and the NFL season resumed. And so it’s, you know, you can start to, you know, feel it coming back, which is very rewarding and satisfying and a heck of a lot better than not having it at all. I mean, personally, I guess it was the first time I missed one Viking game in 35 years, but that’s neither here nor there. The games were still on TV, and there were a limited number of people in the stands and whatnot. So, it was difficult, but as long as it’s maybe a temporary hardship, we all will come out more educated and not only about the health of the fans, but also the athletes or student athletes and, you know, making sure that it’s a sustainable way to have sports again. And I think we’re getting there. I mean, yesterday, I believe there was 40,000 people at a Texas Rangers baseball game. I mean, that was an incredible image to see if you saw a picture of that. And, if that doesn’t become a super spreader event, then that to me, tells us we are well on our way to being back and sooner than… It’ll be here before we know it. So, I’m very, very charged up and very excited with, you know, the rest of 2021.

Chris (10:44):

Bob, anything you wanna add?

Bob (10:46):

Yeah, I guess I just… My point I wanted to make was really one of somewhat of disappointment—how the political agendas got into sports. And that was always, to me a big enjoyable part of being out whether you’re out at a baseball game, or an NBA game or a race. You know, it wasn’t political. And I think a lot of the sports franchises decided to make things political. And, that was just, to me, a very disappointing thing to see. And I think that was always one of the sacred grounds were sporting events. And, a lot of that went away because then it became divisive. So, you were either on one side or the other. You know, just like what they’re going through with baseball. You know, do you go to games or not go to games? And so, I hated to see politics enter into it. And I guess the only other couple things that I wanted to mention was just, you know, the Dodgers it was… You know, being a Los Angeles Dodger fan, 2020 was a great year. But again, like Dave mentioned with Viking games, you know, not to be able to go to any games, that was tough. And Don, we got a track here. We got the Indianapolis 500. And I literally… Again, no fans allowed. But, you know, race fans are really diehards. And so we went… I went with some buddies, and we had a motor-home the night before the race, and we parked right by the stadium and had TVs and, you know, could hear the cars. And you know, you’ll always remember that, but not necessarily in a good way. So 2020’s tough year and I hope that will be the last time for those kinds of memories, some of those memories.

Chris (12:16):

Indeed. That kinda feeds into the next question where I was really wondering about… in relation to front office responses to the pandemic, I want who’s interested in highlights and lowlights and anything they would have handled differently. Bob you kind of addressed that. Anything to add to that?

Bob (12:31):

Well, you know, it being here in Indianapolis, you know, we also just came off the NCAA basketball tournament and, I don’t think any of us wanted to see that basketball tournament get canceled again. And so, on some quick decisions, you know, they were able to do the whole tournament here in Indianapolis. We got some great facilities here. I should probably also mention West Lafayette at Purdue and down in Bloomington, with Indiana University. But, you know, that was kind of fun seeing, you know, really what the great sporting events of the year, the NCAA Tournament being salvaged like that, and then ran the way it did pretty seamlessly. Just last couple days, there’s been a lot of national praise that have gone towards our city on being able to pull something like that off. So, I think that was kinda fun, having to see that from a front row seat on a very unusual circumstance.

Chris (13:18):

Don, um, anything you wanna add to highlights, lowlights and like to see differently?

Don (13:22):

Well, regarding front office the two places I’m most familiar with, Bristol Motor Speedway and my university, I can tell everyone that they took this stuff very seriously and did a really amazing job walking the tightrope between over-correcting and then trying to respond to the fans and serve us. And one of the things I’ve learned in my career, when I was in charge of things, whatever you do at the top, whatever decision you make is wrong. And both places took some heat for that. But I have a respect for them trying to take all factors into consideration and I think they did an amazing job. Certainly one that’s as good as it would possibly be reasonably expected.

Chris (14:07):

Dave?

Dave Wintle (14:08):

Yeah. Going back to Bob’s point on the NCAA basketball tournament. I mean, that’s pretty incredible. They were able to do the entire tournament 68 teams. Of the 67 games, there were 66 played. And gotta give a little credit praise to Bob’s UCLA Bruins for going from not only the First Four, but the Final Four. I don’t know if we’ll ever see that again. Right? And last night’s game was incredible. Baylor surprising some folks even though they were a one seed, defeating a Gonzaga team that was looking to be undefeated, right? So that’s the sort of… You can’t script that. And that’s the sports that I love that are back, right? So, praise to the NCAA as well as the student athletes kinda being ready, willing, and able to be in a bubble for three straight weekends is pretty incredible. As far as, you know, the Minnesota Vikings go, they did a great job communicating to fans throughout the last NFL season. There was a point around the end of September, they really were gonna push to have 2500 to 5000 fans in the stadium. But. ironically, we had played a September game against the Tennessee Titans. And the Tennessee Titans had players come down with COVID in that game, so that kinda halted certain operations relating to fans in the stands, whatnot. So long story short, other than maybe 250 fans, which is close friends, family, and staff of the Vikings, that was pretty much it. Now we play in a fixed roof, closed stadium. And so, it’s worth acknowledging that there’s more restrictions, limitations. Whereas, you know, Bob’s a baseball fan, and that’s outdoor, and Don, you’re a race car fan as well. And like, that’s an outdoor event as well. So, I’m starting to recognize and realize that and just accept that, “Hey, you know, not all sport venues are created equal”. And the organizations have to kind of adapt accordingly, and as a result, everyone’s doing their best with the information they have available at the time. So that’s, I guess, in a nutshell how I feel things are and appreciate what you know, they can play and then just be willing to accept things that may be played with restrictions in terms of fans in attendance of the game.

Chris (16:13):

Did you ever go to a Vikings game in Bloomington when there, when it wasn’t a closed stadium?

Dave Wintle (16:17):

You know what? I never did. That was… The last game there was like early ni- or sorry, early ’80s, in 1981, I wanna say, and I wasn’t quite old enough yet. But definitely, I always… I think I’m glad you brought up old Met Stadium, Chris, because I think of old Met Stadium in Bloomington is kinda… That was my father’s stadium and my stadium was Metrodome before they tore that down and my kids stadium is US Bank Stadium, is kinda how I view things.

Chris (16:44):

It’s interesting. I, I did live in Minnesota for a while. I moved there from Atlanta in the winter, and somebody said they had some extra tickets for Viking game that weekend. Do I wanna go? Well, I was gonna be 18 below. I said, “Nah, thanks anyway”.

Dave Wintle (16:58):

Right. I can say that I did go to… There was a Viking playoff game that we played against the Seattle Seahawks just a number of years ago that was outside while we were building our new stadium. So, that was, I believe negative four, negative five degrees at kickoff. And I did sit through that game with my dear brother-in-law who sat next to me the whole time. I told him, I said, “Hey, there’s not a cloud in the sky, but you know, the windshield factor was a negative double digits, et cetera.” We ended up losing the game by maybe not making a field goal at the end. But, there’s always next year, you know?

Chris (17:32):

(laughs). It was a dry cold, right?

Dave Wintle (17:34):

Yeah, it was a dry cold.

Chris (17:36):

So we’ve seen shifts through the many, many sports through the course this past year. Part of it, I think accelerated because of what happened last year. Many things had been in the works prior to that. You know, NASCAR and Major League Baseball trying to re-energize a fan base, both the current base and develop a new fan base. And that’s really true with many sports that have an aging fan base. How do you feel about some of those changes? Because, you know… Don, I think about NASCAR, and it’s not… They’re doing a lot to bring a younger audience, a more diverse audience. They’re changing up, you know, the different races from the dirt, from the dirt race this past weekend at the Roval in Charlotte and a number of other things. How do you feel about that, and then Major League Baseball in the way they’re working with the minor leagues to really change the way to make it a faster game, or just a more engaging game to try to get more people that have… Don’t wanna sleep through three hours of baseball? And I say that ’cause I love baseball, it’s my number one sport. And do any of them take any cues from Major League Soccer, that has done a really phenomenal job with the younger audience, and a sport that’s been around for a while that’s finally kicking in, because the stars have aligned for soccer to be a force to be reckoned with, from a professional level. So, Dave, you wanna just pick up on that?

Dave Wintle (18:52):

Yeah, certainly. I mean, I certainly see the need… I mean, the fans are the customers in a lot of these cases, so the organizations are having to you know… They probably are old school. They’re having to learn to be new school as well, when it comes to fan engagement and social media platforms and keeping, you know, keeping the attention because certain… All these different sports, you know, soccer, football, a collision or a contact sport, or baseball. I love baseball myself; I really do. I mean, that’s national pastime, and it’s a slower game, but there’s so much happening even when it’s, you know, idle that… If that makes sense. So, I guess what I’m trying to say is, I can see organizations making a real concerted effort to reach out to the younger fan base, and it’ll take time. And it’ll be very interesting to see how the younger fan comes through, and is it the cool thing to do to be at the game you know, to treat it like an event for the day or is it just a standalone two-hour or three-hour game where you just come and go? I myself love the, you know, making a day of it and having an event and doing tailgating before the game itself and then hanging out after. Those are things that are important to me. But, each fan is a little different. But, I can just see organizations really making great strides certainly in the last five years or so on, fan engagement, regardless of age, and certainly from a kinda a social media perspective to retain fans attention and to make sure they keep you know, getting a younger fans attention, which it makes perfect sense. A younger fan probably values experiences more than they value things like, you know, cars and houses, as a random example. So, it makes perfect sense for Major League Baseball to learn from soccer and for football to learn from, you know, other sports as well. So, I think there’s a lot of good uh, synergies going on there as it relates to the various fan bases of all ages.

Chris (20:43):

Don, how about you?

Don (20:44):

This is something I’ve changed my perspective on the past several years. Back… As I say having attended race of 1964, I was pretty old school, pretty hardcore. And for a long time, NASCAR… I think NASCAR kinda tipped me off. You know back in the ’90s, when they were building all these mile-and-a-half, what we pejoratively called cookie cutter cracks, cookie cutter tracks. You could not go up to a race on Sunday, and by taking… It was… You just couldn’t do it. There was no room for anybody unless you already had that done. I was one who felt like NASCAR was losing its core, leaving us behind. What changed is that over the past 10 or 12 years since I’ve been involved with Bristol Motor Speedway, I came to see you know, guys like me aren’t going to be around long. And if this sport’s gonna continue to be around, they’ve gotta do something other than what I like. And one of the things I say occasionally is that I don’t have to like something for it to be a good idea, and NASCAR fans are really funny. There is all this clamoring, you gotta change, you gotta cross them, you gotta… Make something happen. You know, same old, same old. And then, when NASCAR does, so I’m like “Well, don’t do that. Don’t put dirt down on Bristol. Don’t turn Charlotte into road course but do something well.” Okay. So, I have come to appreciate the fact that the many ways NASCAR has tried to broaden its appeal through—you alluded to the graph of diversity a minute ago—those sorts of things, I think they’re good for the sport long-term. I don’t have to like it. But I think it’s the right thing to do.

Chris (22:11):

Bob?

Bob (22:13):

Thanks, Chris. And, the problem with having me go last, I keep writing more and more notes. And so, I got a few things I wrote down. To follow up on your point on some of the changes in Major League Baseball, I think, you know, they’ve done some things to speed the game up a little bit. But really, in all sports is one of my pet peeves are the instant replays, I just think those are a thrill killer in a lot of sports. And I know the ideas to get it right, but how many times do you see that they also didn’t necessarily get it right? So instant replays, and again, maybe that’s because, you know, my dad was a referee. You know, I’m sure he would have had no use for that at all. So, some of the other notes on what they’re doing. And I… In 2012, we hosted the Super Bowl here, and I was on the local organizing committee, we got to see the planning of it up front. And you know, the Super Bowl is another one of those events that they have a big deal as the halftime show and music show. And you know, I love concerts and stuff, but I just don’t ever see the two mixing. I mean, they’re just two very different audiences. And that crowd that pays the kind of money it takes to go to Super Bowl, they’re probably not fans of that person singing. I know those are done for television, trying to get people in to watch. The sports fans, that’s when they go out and do other stuff. So, I’ve never been a big fan of that mix. I’d like what the MLB did with… They’ve done with All-Star Games. Then sometimes they do it with the World Series. Like the All-Star Games, they’ll bring in All-Star players from the past and they’ll make some kind of big deal. And I know that always goes over very well when you see these players from the past. You may not have seen in 25 years or more, come in and get the standing ovation. I like stuff related to the game. One of my sons started going to the Indy 500. The reason he went and went with a bunch of buddies is they have a huge concert area there with a DJ and it gets to be pretty wild. And so, that’s what got them coming back. And when I would ask him what he thought of the race, and he had no idea who won or anything about the race at all. And this past year, I thought… It was the year before last, he said “You know, I think maybe next year I’d like to go to the race”. And so, I’m hoping that’s what happens, is when they have that experience that they get a little bit of that hunger to maybe come back and see the race. You know, we talked about the NCAA Tournament being here in Indianapolis, and I don’t know how much it was shown externally, but between first and second games there was kind of an extended concert by Miley Cyrus for the fans. And that you know, listening to the sports talk radio shows and, and that went over with very mixed results. And again, same kind of deal. I mean, if you went, if you were in there buying a ticket you’re paying $1,000 or more to go see a game in there and you had distant viewing, not very good sound for a concert, so I thought that whole combination was not necessarily the greatest thing. I would have liked to seen, you know, a tribute to Final Four MVPs over the years. You know, people that are still alive, and I just, you know, wanted to mention about the Indianapolis Indians. You know, this year they’re celebrating 25 years in their stadium, and it’s a wonderful stadium. And it’s been one of the places, you know, for the last quarter century, I’ve been a season ticket holder and taking my kids. And you know, they grow up, and now, you know, my oldest son, one of the things he loves to do is take his two daughters to the games, and you can just see how that cycle works. And, you know, hopefully, they’ll be going to baseball games years and years from now. So, I think that’s one of the neat things about baseball, particularly Minor League Baseball is still remains very, very affordable.

Chris (25:28):

With Minor League Ball, do you follow the careers of players that have played in Indianapolis that have gone on to Pittsburg and won?

Bob (25:34):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s a good question. That’s really fun. You know, there’s… They’ve had several because, you know, The Pirates haven’t necessarily been the most successful team. There’s been, you know, a lot of players that have come through, and it moved up pretty quick. And it made  a pretty big difference on The Pirates. And so, it is fun to see that. And then in the past, you know, they’ve had affiliations with Cincinnati Reds, and all the way back to even the Montreal Expos. But now that they’re with The Pirates, it seems to be a little quicker trail coming up and going through that is a lot of fun, being able to see it. And they’re hungry. I mean, once… And Triple-A ball, they’re not making a whole lot of money. And so, you know, every bat’s important, diving for loose balls, you know, they’re one phone call away from getting sent up or sent down. And so, the effort you see is, I think, very, very genuine.

Chris (26:22):

Dave?

Dave Wintle (26:22):

Chris, I was gonna ask Bob, well, first, congrats on being a silver anniversary ticket holder, the 25th year, that’s big. So, congratulations there. My question or maybe my challenge for you is, what’s your thoughts? Would you go to a game if they say replace the home plate umpire with an automatic robotic, you know, balls and strikes? You know, they’re trying that in the Minor League level ranks, so I think as we speak, not yet in Major League Baseball, but what are your thoughts there? Does that become a deal killer or you just you know, roll with it?

Bob (26:51):

I don’t know. I mean, I… You know, I’ve seen what they’ve been able to do with tennis. You know, tennis, it’s real quick. If it’s like that, I think and it’s… I don’t know. You know, and I… When I go to baseball games, and I, you know, it seems like it’s always your team that’s not getting that outside pitch or, you know, whatever and, and stuff that’s not reviewable. And then, you know, they get the science down, you know, they’re doing more and more with electronics. And I think if they can get it to where it’s proven, and it’s safe, I think certain things are always, they’re not gonna be able to eliminate. The balls and strikes is a good example. I think if they can do that and make it better and right that’s great. I just… You know, I go back and look what instant replay has brought on, and I think it’s just brought on a lot more disputes and headaches in itself. But yeah, I think I’d be okay with that.

Chris (27:33):

Interesting question, Dave, because I also think about the… You know, they’ve got a clock on the pitcher talking about shortening the length of the game to fewer innings and there were other things. Don, in your market, you’ve seen change in Minor League Ball just with the team there. It was a rookie league team, right?

Don (27:47):

Yeah, the Appalachian League basically folded in Major League Baseball’s elimination of lots and lots and lots of teams. We have since… Replaced isn’t the right word, but we have a wooden bat league in the summer now, and I’ve not been to a game yet. But I want to do that. Of course, we haven’t had games ey.

Chris (28:05):

That’s a really great venue in Johnson City.

Don (28:08):

It’s a fun place to go to.

Chris (28:10):

Yeah. I’m going to shift gears now to sports betting. Seems to have exploded, and I’d really love to hear your feelings in relation to betting and the impact it may have on the play itself. Do you think it will? Are you worried about it? Is it just another way for some other people to capitalize on sports? So, Don?

Don (28:26):

I probably feel about sports betting the way Bob feels about instant replay. Part of that’s because I’m a mathematician and I know the… I know how the numbers work, and they are not in anybody’s favor, except for the people who are running these things. We’re getting ready to build, put in a big casino on the Virginia side of Bristol and I think it’s gonna be great for the area. Certainly, we can use the economic influx. But I tell people, you know, there’s a reason they can build these big buildings. And it’s not because they’re gonna give you a lot of money. And I feel that way about sports betting too, in that, yeah, it’s kinda fun. Yeah, you put out you know, a couple bucks here, there, sort of no harm, no foul, but I’m not sure that generates any real interest in the sport itself.

Chris (29:07):

Bob?

Bob (29:07):

Yeah, ironically, I just, I just… The last podcast I listened to, I just finished yesterday, and I don’t know if anybody else on today has listened to it. But it’s called Whistleblower. And it’s about the NBA officiating scandal back several years ago, and including the guy, the main guy that it’s about was on there, and who went to prison. And so, it shared a lot of interesting insight on, you know, officials, for example, the role they play in that and then how that relates to gambling. You know, it’s one thing if you could just bet on a game and a point spread. But now you can bet on such crazy things between innings you know—If the ball lands on the dirt of the mound or not—You know, people that can control some of those things that could be involved in a wager and some of the uh, dollar amounts. I mean, I, kinda like Don, I know my kids have a couple… They got accounts set up, but I don’t yet, and they’ve encouraged me to do so, but I do plan to bet on the Dodgers to win it all this year. I will come clean with that, and—I know it’s not really going out on a limb—Cory Seager to be the MVP of the National League. I mean, so far with the start they’ve gotten, that’s not really a long shot bet either. But I think it can be fun. But like anything else, I think it brings in the excess and possibly the criminal activity is as you can see, when you get into some of the other stories, they’re kind of behind the wall. So, I’m kind of mixed. I think it can be fun if done for pleasure. But if it’s done for influence or as a way to make a living, I think it can be a little different story.

Chris (30:35):

Dave, your thoughts?

Dave Wintle (30:36):

Yeah, certainly not a big fan of gambling. Being that out in front like it is now, I guess, I’ll say it’s inevitable with fantasy sports, fantasy leagues, fantasy seasons, fantasy daily leagues. I mean, you could just, you can see the writing on the wall years ago. The NBA, I know, they had just done an exhibition NBA All-Star game in Las Vegas a number of years ago. And that seemed to be successful. And more recently Vegas has added pro sports, obviously with the Knights, the NHL Knights, and then more recently, with the Raiders having moved to town, and I’ve been to Las Vegas since the Raiders facility was built. I mean, it’s a magnificent building. And you know, where the Al Davis Flame is, you know, is in the foreground and the background is the… We’ll call it the skyline of Las Vegas. So to me, that was “Okay, it’s here, it’s happening, and, and uh, we’re left to accept it.” But I think the theme or tone on the call here is what I would support, which is if done responsibly, and if it doesn’t cause problems, and certainly you never want it to taint the game in terms of various things that can be done by teams or athletes or, you know, stories over the years of point shaving by players and referee scandals and the like. So, that’s where, you know, I’d like to say I, you know, draw the line and… But who ultimately controls that? Obviously, it’s each league. It’s each commissioner and hopefully it’s everything can be handled appropriately. So, it’s a reality of today’s sports world we live in. I guess we as the consumer maybe, you know, somewhat created it, but it is what it is. And it’s just a matter of making sure it’s controlled appropriately.

Chris (32:10):

Let’s shift over to… And this, you know, you’ll have to think about, ’cause I didn’t tell you I was gonna ask you this. But Esports comes to mind and another huge growth industry as it relates to sports. It’s not a traditional kind of sport as we know it, but from a participation, a viewership, a revenue perspective globally Esports has gone through the roof. Colleges are offering scholarships for Esports players. Would love to have just your thoughts on Esports. Good, bad, indifferent, how do you feel about it? Is it good for sports in general and engaging different audiences? Is it just something different that can be considered a sport, but it doesn’t have any impact on traditional sports, if you will? So, Dave, if you don’t mind running with this, just, since you’re here?

Dave Wintle (32:51):

Yeah. Certainly a newer thing that I’m not totally familiar with. Frankly, I don’t think I’ve formed my opinion on it yet. But certainly, it’s kind of like cryptocurrency. I definitely keep my ears on it, but it’s maybe something I don’t totally understand yet. So, I’m yet to, you know, be too overly invested in it.

Chris (33:08):

Fair enough. That’s not uncommon. I mean, it’s interesting, when we do a national survey with sports fans across the country, and we know and we see it exploding, we see the particularly younger audiences that are involved in it, they get it. Some of us more seasoned folks don’t quite get it, but it’s coming. Bob, you have any thoughts on it?

Bob (33:23):

Yeah, I think really, a lot along the lines that Dave did. I only recently stumbled on it. And I really struggled with getting excited about it. I think it’s probably a good example of kinda a division where the younger people are going today, you know, are more interested in that. And I think that’s probably a reflection of, you know, video games at a young age and computers. Having computers and cell phones at a young age. And so, that’s, you know, driven towards that audience versus, you know, being outside or the outdoor sports or, you know, doing things where you don’t have… You’re not connected to something. And so, I don’t know… I don’t know if it’s… I my hope, my personal hope would be that it’s more of a fad than a real thing and that it has its time where it comes and goes.

Chris (34:07):

Don, thoughts?

Don (34:07):

My, my university has instituted an Esports program, and we’ve hired a quote-unquote, coach, and I told our athletic director, “That’s the dumbest thing we could have done,” but we did. I went to a race at Richmond a couple of years ago, and Richmond is built on the Fairground site, and they were having an Esports event at the time. So, I went in and watched it. I didn’t come away liking it anymore, but I came away with a little more of an appreciation of it.

Chris (34:33):

In what sense?

Don (34:33):

There is this like whole different kind of skill level, and I think these kids, you know, they’ve worked hard to get to develop these skills. And I… You could sort of tell who was good and who wasn’t good, and you kinda came away with an appreciation of someone who was good at it.

Chris (34:51):

You know, on the Dallas Cowboys Training Facility, they have an Esports team that they recruit. They bring these young players in, they go through training camp, they feed them, they house them. They’re a member of their team. And they play in all kinds of different Esports leagues. I mean, it’s big time. Bob, I don’t think it’s going to go away. I think it’s only gonna grow.

Bob (35:10):

Just like it’s something other than sports.

Chris (35:12):

Yeah, you don’t view it as sports even though for them it is a sport. It’s that competition, it’s that release of adrenaline. It’s those things we feel in sports. It’s just not… It doesn’t maybe feel like sport, ’cause it’s not quite as physical. But it’s mentally… It can be very mentally challenging. And-

Bob (35:28):

Is there a fan base? And is there… I mean, to me, fan bases and television will ultimately determine the future probably.

Chris (35:36):

It has a huge fan base. There are more viewers of Esports globally than all sports put together. I know, you may find that hard to believe, but across the globe, there are more eyeballs on electronic sporting events than on all other sports combined.

Bob (35:52):

Okay. It won’t be traditional broadcast TV, like we know it today, it’ll be online with that kind of advertising.

Chris (35:59):

Yes. And I’ll say I believe that TV as we know it won’t be around for all that long.

Bob (36:04):

Yeah, that’s a good point.

Chris (36:05):

So, it’s all streaming and moving in that direction anyway. So, Don were you gonna say something or Dave?

Dave Wintle (36:10):

I just gotta… just add by saying, you know, certainly in the last, you know, 12, 13 months, you know, since the COVID world started, everything’s become so virtual. So, I can see this thing, you know, being exponential. Some of those numbers you mentioned about how it supersedes or exceeds, you know, terms of viewership or however it’s measured. That really doesn’t surprise me, because of, that’s kinda how you know, things are enjoyed and viewed and consumed these days. So, it’s certainly something that is here to stay and something to keep tabs on for sure. And either embrace or, you know, I don’t know the alternative yet. I will wait with bated breath.

Chris (36:46):

And you may never get to… But also interesting about that, especially with, with the younger audience, but it’s someone I think Dave maybe you said earlier about the younger audience and being experiential. And that’s true in this case because in Esports, the audience can be engaging in conversation with the player. I mean, there, there is, there’s kind of direct communication, you can have with the player. So, they can be a little bit… Intimate’s a hard word to use when it’s all virtual. But there is that. You develop a sort of a relationship, and you get behind and you support certain players to go on.

Bob (37:15):

Is there gambling with it?

Brad Carpenter (producer) (37:18):

There’s so much gambling with it. Just a real quick story. I was doing an experiential event when I was in Los Angeles and was at the Staples Center. And it was for a game called League of Legends. And it’s primarily played, for sure it has a huge Western audience, but it’s primarily played in China. And we had… The Staple Center was filled. So, we’re talking 90,000, 100,000 people at the stadium watching this event. But online, we had an additional 2.2 million people watching a live event.

Chris (37:48):

Yeah.

Dave Wintle (37:50):

Incredible.

Chris (37:52):

One last question. And then we’ll end it, I want you to complete my sentence. As a sports fan, my greatest hope for 2021 and beyond is… Bob.

Bob (38:01):

So, my great hope for 2021 and beyond is to return to the 2019 and before. I just, I don’t know if we’ll ever get to that. That’s my biggest concern. So that would be my hope is that we return to times that were in 2019 and before.

Chris (38:17):

And when you say return just exactly the way they were?

Bob (38:20):

Sure, full stadiums, you know, no changes in the game, people are free to come and go. Just exactly how we knew it in 2019. You know, I like going to golf, professional golf matches and all that kind of stuff. And so, some of these practices that came along that kind of were a detriment to fans, I just hope none of those get carried on to… ‘Cause you know that… I think it underscored, 2020 underscored the importance of fans to all sports. That’s what I would hope for, is that very soon, we return that, those kinds of times.

Chris (38:52):

Don?

Bob (38:52):

Yeah, I concur with Bob. And I would like to get back the things that I am missing now. I don’t know how possible that is or quick it can happen, or really, even if it should happen. But I do think… I’m, optimistic and I think we’re heading in the right direction. I’m not quite sure where the final destination is. But I’ve encouraged the way we’re going.

Chris (39:14):

Dave.

Dave Wintle (39:15):

As a sports fan, my great hope for 2021 and beyond is to hear the roar of a home crowd again. Very consistent, I feel with what Bob and Don mentioned. You know, for me… I mean, certainly acknowledging these new platforms as it relates to subscribing for watching games and virtual and E world and virtual worlds that we live in, right? I mean, that sounds like it’s here to stay based on some numbers there. But for some reason, before our call, I was flipping through the channel, and it was City Slickers. And if you recall Curley kind of giving Mitch, who’s played by Billy Crystal kinda… So, you got to find that one thing, right? And uh, you know, I was thinking, I said, you know, and for me, it’s those couple hours outside the stadium tailgating before the game. You know, win or lose, you’re probably still gonna go to work that next Monday, but that’s Sunday afternoon, I mean, that’s where kind of your worries go away and you’re able to share a special game and several hours like an event with someone that you take to that game, right? So, to me, that’s kind of that one thing for me that I, you know, crave that returns back to sports as we know.

Chris (40:19):

Okay, I’m gonna ask one more question. So, I’m dying to know what is the single most important emotional benefit you get from watching sports or your engagement with sports? Dave?

Dave Wintle (40:32):

Oh sure, that’s a great question. You know, I think I kinda just temporarily forget about other things going on, not permanently, but just for that day, or for that event. Being down there before a game and not… You know, the world catches up to you in that moment. You’re always kinda you know, five minutes before or five minutes late for something. But for a certain event, you know, I’ve never been to a NASCAR event, but I can only assume all the preparation before the days leading up, I mean, that’s kinda, that… I could embrace that, you know? And for, you know, Bob’s at the baseball game, you know, being there beforehand and beating the traffic, and to me, it’s just kinda the… It’s almost like the vacation from reality, even though you’re still kinda in your own backyard, you enjoy a game, you certainly expect them to win, they might lose, in my case, my team’s lost a lot. But, you know, you’re a fan, maybe not necessarily a fanatic, because, you know, that shared moment with a friend, family member, somebody take to the game that, you know, life kinda returns back to normal the next day. So, in a nutshell, I would just say it’s a whole slew of things there. But just kinda escape is… The word escape kinda is the emotional thought or feeling that I feel I get, and I hope I share that and pass on that passion with whoever I take to that particular game.

Chris (41:50):

Yeah, I heard escape and camaraderie. Bob?

Bob (41:54):

I think kind of the high and low on the emotions, you know, you asked about the emotions. And I think it goes back to kind of one of the sayings of the, you know, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. And, then you know it’s in a pretty even keel world, I think it’s sports that… You know, whether you’re there in person or even at home, just that thrill of victory, and how that can just make you feel so good. And the same for the agony of defeat, sometimes it just stabs you when you get so close to winning.

Chris (42:21):

But you don’t hold on it too long. Do you?

Bob (42:23):

No. Except for UCLA. UCLA’s… That shot on Saturday night, that UCLA had a chance of really creating some noise, but they lost. And again, that was the agony of defeat, but again, they were very excited for what the team accomplished, and they left with their heads held high.

Chris (42:40):

It was interesting watching the end of that game, ’cause I felt emotions for both teams. It was one of those like, “Oh, crap, that was incredible. Oh, damn.” It was an-

Bob (42:48):

Yeah, only took about 3.6 seconds.

Chris (42:51):

Yeah, I know, right?

Bob (42:53):

Yeah.

Chris (42:53):

Don, how about you?

Don (42:55):

I’m gonna stick with the, the theme of emotions. I’m not a real emotional guy. I’m an introvert. You probably won’t know if I’m excited or mad or anything. But sports gives me something to do, a place to park my emotions. I grew up in ACC country. And you know, back when I was growing up, if North Carolina lost the first game of that Saturday doubleheader, I didn’t care about the second game, my day was ruined. Now it’s kind of like, “Eh, dang it”. So, I can put my emotion somewhere on something that really doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things as much as I like it. I sort of know what it means and what it doesn’t mean I think.

Chris (43:30):

So that’s kind of an escape as well. Is that fair where you’re not… You’re enjoying the moment but you’re, you’re not so invested that you’re fanatical about it? You have been phenomenal. I really appreciate you taking the time and, and sharing your, your thoughts on sports and your love of the game or games. Keep it up. Thanks for being part of Fired Up. Y’all have a good evening.

Don (43:49):

Thanks for asking.

Bob (43:50):

Thanks, Chris.